techPresident - Obama's MySpace Mess: Enter the Shovel Brigade - Comments

$.25 per supporter, not $4, right?

mnprogressive — Sun, 06 May 2007 00:00:32 -0400

150,000 supporters at $1 a supporter would be $150k.

Even at $49k (with ad revenue stuff) it comes out to be like $0.32 per supporter. Quite a deal.

The Guy's Got a Right to His Name

patachon — Fri, 04 May 2007 18:04:46 -0400

Wow, this is so off base, it's amazing.

A whole series of allegations all to get around the simple proposition that if you open an account under somebody else's name, that person might just come and claim it back.

Most people have no problem understanding that.

Move on, nothing to see here.

Independent Illinois Grassroots: IllinoisDemNet.com

Let's move on to the real news...

Matthew Cowherd — Thu, 03 May 2007 22:01:06 -0400

basketball80 sums up this non-issue nicely:

"Joe started the page as a volunteer effort to support Obama, then he changed the password, blocked out the Campaign managers and demanded money." - (from Big Deal Over Nothing)

In the meantime, I guess I'll have to search elsewhere for real news on candidates and technology:

"Obama wants Creative Commons licensed Presidential debates"

www.lessig.org/blog/archives/003763.shtml

Matt Cowherd
Brooklyn, NY

Joe Anthony decided he

kate_rocks — Thu, 03 May 2007 21:42:48 -0400

Joe Anthony decided he wanted to make a Barack Obama site.
No one asked him to do it, and therefore it was free work because he chose to make it so.

Thusly, he shouldn't have demanded any kind of payment for something that couldn't have taken more than an hour to set up. It's myspace, for god's sake. It doesn't take hours or days of 'hard work'. You sit on a chair, type a little, and bam, there's a myspace.

This whole thing is being blown out of proportion.
Joe Anthony did a stupid thing.
Maybe Barack Obama's managers did handle it wrong, but they shouldn't have had to handle it in the first place.
This all goes back to Joe Anthony, and centers around him.

Just because some guy made a fake myspace profile, and it was seized from him, doesn't mean people shouldn't go on supporting Obama.

He's a great guy, and the only candidate I have heard anything about thats even slightly sparked my interest in voting for him.

People are making this way too big of a deal.

Since when did myspace have an affect on politics?
Politics are about making good decisions for the country, not some stupid myspace site.

you're dumb

phoenix — Thu, 03 May 2007 19:17:40 -0400

prairie waif. come on. the myspace page said explicitly that it is not connected officially with the obama campaign. everyone who feels duped or says he was a squatter is dumb because he put it right there in front that he was UNofficial. but whatever, i bet most people just added it as a friend and didnt look at anything. showing how UNimportant myspace friends really are...

Looks like I'm voting Green again this year.

efaardvark — Thu, 03 May 2007 19:15:28 -0400

I can't see how any real contender for the Democratic ticket could claim that $39k is too much. I'm SURE they'll spend 100x that on obnoxious TV ads before the elections, and this is (well was) the kind of promotion that Obama will never be able to buy with TV or radio ads. If they're claiming they can't come up with the money for the kind of promotion that Joe was doing for them then they're flat out lying as far as I'm concerned.

They should have hired the guy at $50k/year salary to make the site official, laid down some rules about what is appropriate and what it not, and let the guy continue to do what he is obviously so willing and able to do. Imagine the boost the fans (and the site) could have had by posting "we've gone legit!". Imagine the free publicity for the campaign.

Instead they have their "train wreck". Good going guys. And good luck getting any more support from people like Joe. I certainly wouldn't want to be contributing my time to the Obama campaign after this.

So, THAT was a FAKE official Obama site?

Prairie Waif — Thu, 03 May 2007 18:51:23 -0400

Joe Anthony, you owe me a huge apology. I signed on to YOUR FAKE official looking Barak Obama site, believing it to be the official sanctioned site. Instead? I get a "player" who wants his name to be bigger than his candidates and accolades for his work.

I feel taken in by some fraud artist masquerading as "the real deal." And you want to be paid for that?!

How about I get a class action against you for misrepresenting what site I was signing-up to and therefore preventing me from seeking out THE OFFICIAL site which would have provided me with Official and well vetted information from the candidate and his staffers instead of someone who believed in the campaign only long enough to feel HE has the right to litigate.

Joe, your principles are only smaller than the headline font size you desire.

Prairie Waif

A great way to discourage future volunteers!

roblimo — Thu, 03 May 2007 18:20:10 -0400

I do commercial Internet videos for local businesses partly for fun and partly for spending money. I'm also fairly well-known in my "day job" for my prowess in building large-scale online communities. (Yes, I'm the "Roblimo" who's Editor in Chief for Slashdot's parent company, OSTG.)

Someone I know in Washington, D.C. -- someone surely known to Micah and Zephyr, too -- asked me if I would like to do video work for his political consulting company, mostly making local TV spots and Web-delivered video for their clients around the country. "There's a ****pot of money in this," he said. "We can really make out."

I told him no thanks, I make more than enough money between my job and my side business; that if I was going to do political campaign work I'd choose the candidates I helped based on my judgment of their fitness to hold office, not based on their financial ability to hire consultants. I also said that the only way I'd be comfortable charging local candidates for my services was if I taught them how to script, produce, and deliver their own videos so that their campaigns could do their own work "on the cheap" instead of paying to fly me in and put me up every time they wanted to do a new shoot.

Now I'm starting to wonder. Was I wrong to turn down an opportunity to make "a ****pot of money" doing political videos?

From my perspective, what happened to Joe Anthony was that he did great work as a volunteer, but once his work started to become noticeably successful Obama's professionals wanted to step in and take over: "Great work, kid, but this is too big for an amateur. We'll handle it now."

You'd think, based on the message he's putting out, that Obama would be the one current presidential candidate who would understand that the value of a loyal *and successful* volunteer is greater than the value of of a paid consultant; that not paying a continuing fee to that volunteer instead of putting his work into another paid consultant's hands was like a slap in the face to anyone who volunteers in a big way.

It's not that volunteers necessarily expect to be paid, but that they should - must - always be given first crack at paid jobs as an expression of gratitude for what they have already done.

In this case, a short-term job offer in Chicago was meaningless, especially since Internet work can be done from anywhere. (Case in point: I live in Florida but I work for a California-based company.)

The right thing to do would have been to offer Joe a reasonable monthly stipend to keep on building his Obama MySpace page.

Many comments I've read on Obama's official site and elsewhere seem to dismiss Joe Anthony as "just a volunteer" or express outrage at the idea of a volunteer expecting to be paid for his work instead of having that work taken over by a professional. And many seem upset at the idea of Joe wanting compensation for his previous efforts in return for getting kicked to the curb.

Political campaigning has become a business and apparently only those who treat it as a business get any respect. In this kind of poisonous atmosphere there is *no way* I am going to give away skills for which I otherwise get $80 - $120 per hour -- especially to Barack Obama.

Robin 'Roblimo' Miller
Bradenton, Florida

there's some silliness here

Adam Bonin — Thu, 03 May 2007 17:47:00 -0400

the obama campaigners broke the law by seizing the url without paying for it, as a creative or intellectual property. Thus in effect having commited a crime.

MySpace owns MySpace.com, and all the usernames therein. MySpace decided, as a policy matter, that famous people get their own names. That's undoubtedly a proper thing for them to do for a variety of reasons.

What's a "facist"?

In reading through all the comments...

Weave — Thu, 03 May 2007 14:27:30 -0400

...it seems clear that there's no intent of extortion going on, just people (including the campaign folks) who seem pretty quick to jump to conclusions about Joe's intentions.

Politicians ask for money all the time. Joe did nothing wrong by asking for recompense, and it sounds like the New Media Team asked for a quote initially anyway. I work in new media, and $49K ain't no thang. Certainly the ability to reach 160K folks and have a pre-built, preloaded, predisposed home on MySpace is worth that.

$0.02.

Ah, business as usual

superliberalgirl — Thu, 03 May 2007 13:59:00 -0400

I have been on the friend lists of both Joe's, and the "official" Obama site, since it went up a couple of weeks ago - I've not commented on either since I joined them, just enjoyed watching the process of grassroots and non-grassroots take place side by side. Today though, I decided that this current situation really has been an eye-opening moment for Obama supporters, or, people like me, those who WANT to support Obama, but just aren't sure yet if we should. After I read up on the situation here, I wrote in response the following to the Obama myspace page today, and posted it in their comments (as if they'd actually approve it! lol) and thought I'd post it here as well, as a way of having my opinion heard (if you don't mind)...

Subject line: It's not what he says he's done, or will do,

Body:

It's what he's done

Let me tell you my story.

I was really excited when I added this page a couple of weeks ago, because I knew then I could support both Obama's "official" page, AND the one I was already a member of that had been working to further his message years before anyone in the official Obama camp bothered to use myspace as a campaigning platform. I liked having both, I loved the idea that just ordinary people were working together in the political process, because that, to me is democracy, that's a celebration of free-will and freedom and a beautiful example of being engaged - plugged in, and ACTING, instead of the opposite.

But now I'm faced with this bizarre and disappointing (but not very surprising, sadly) reality where the political figure who's supposed to represent change, represent reason, the individual, and the freedoms we know we've had stolen from us since Bush came into power, has either, A. allowed his advisors and campaign to crush the efforts of the individual, and refused to compensate him for the work and "property," they stole, or, B. directly decided to do so himself. Wow. Either scenario is unacceptable for a candidate who's being so sold as the Everyman advocate.

So here's a news flash, Obama camp: I'm what you'd call an "on the fencer." I've been saying since I was fifteen years old that as soon as I could, I'd vote for a minority or a woman, if indeed either ever got a fair chance at running for presidency in the white-male dominated, absurdly patriarchal (considering what we say we stand for) society of ours. This year though, I have the ability to vote for one or the other, in the same primary..so I've been torn. I spent a great deal of time self-searching, and discussing, with friends, with my family, with my boyfriend, who's a libertarian-leaning Texan with a PhD in Physics (despite our total agreement on environmental issues, we still have a lot of debates) trying to make a decision either way, trying to see both the good and bad in either choice, to weigh it out properly. Being a "feminist," - and I use this term lightly, due to all the various negative and misleading connotations attached to it - I found myself stubbornly leaning, just a smidge, towards Clinton, but I was secretly hoping that Barak would come out shining and sway me towards him simply because I really am so sick of "business as usual." And we all know that the Clintons, as much as I love Bill, are the penultimate example of, "business as usual." Now though, thanks to the events of the last few days, I know I really CAN vote for Hillary, no guilt, no regrets, because it's become clear that she and Obama are not all that different after all.

I am truly saddened by this whole affair, because it proves, once again, that, in the end, it's the individual who's completely unvalued by the powerful in this beautiful, but totally corrupt, country of ours. So, yes, remember the "On the Fencers", the "Undecideds." They're the ones elections always come down to anyway.

Thank you,
Los Angeles, California.

The Super(Liberal) Girl

Creative and or intellectual rights issues

Chaosrising — Thu, 03 May 2007 13:00:51 -0400

need i remind the obama campaigners of the myspace page creators intellectual rights for being its creator and the fact that due to the fact that this one person did create the page and it is his intellectual work and time as well as his creative work, they have just caused a major fubar situation if this heads to the courts, the page creator is entitled to compensation for his intellectual or creative works and to be compensated for his time on those works, if not i am sure there are many artists that will find that if anyone took any of their works away and stated that the works they did were connected to a political campaign the artists would sue and win, and being i am in art school for culinary arts i would have a raging fit is anyone took any of my work pertaining to recipies and or concepts that i clearly worked on as their own,i would drag them into the legal system and show proof of my hand in all of the disputed works, so in effect the obama people did not think in terms of a really big picture and the disaterous consequences that can come forth from this type of incident.

the facts from what i have read:

1: the person who created the page created the page

2: the pages content is not the property of the obama campaign regardless of the fact that this person volunteered without the campaigns permission, yet he volunteered.

3:any works done in the likeness of, or as a fansite, can be and are a creative effort of the person who created or creates the fansite, not the person that the fansite is based upon, thus if an artist creates a statue of brad pitt, brad pitt can not have the statue seized merely because the statue looks like his image or likeness.

4: the obama campaigners broke the law by seizing the url without paying for it, as a creative or intellectual property. Thus in effect having commited a crime.

5: and finally the most important aspect of this entire situation, the fact that the obama staffers, and campaign personel, are showing the same callous disregard that they state they are trying to end in washington, this all smacks of hypocrisy and of typical washington politics, yet if senator obama is really trying to make real change he needs to do the real honourable thing and ensure this person is properly compensated for his work, anything less and obama is nothing more than the atypical facists of washington politics all dressed up in a new suit and telling more of the lies we as americans are all far too tired of.

Big Deal Over Nothing

basketball80 — Thu, 03 May 2007 12:01:54 -0400

Joe started the page as a volunteer effort to support Obama, then he changed the password, blocked out the Campaign managers and demanded money. I don't see Obama's campaign managers being at fault in any way shape or form.

Myspace is free, and there's a certain audacity on Joe's part to try and extort money from the campaign over something he started on a volunteer basis.

Big deal over nothing....

Missing the point:

detourjazz — Thu, 03 May 2007 11:49:38 -0400

I think this guy made a fan site.. to support his favorite candidate. . or someone he admired, along with the THOUSANDS (or more) other "fake" or fan sites on myspace and the web, he should NOT be demanding anything. .besides maybe a thank you.

My example for the day: A Fan of Taylor Hicks (last years American Idol Winner) made a fan site. . under the name of graycharles.com Taylor when he won, signed a contract with GC to have that as the official forum / fan site. .for one year. . they came to terms. . NO money was demanded.. a fan did it out of love for the idol, and was rewarded for it.

My whole point is this: Don't make a fan post: forum: site: or anything like that to try to extort / bribe / earn a living or any sort of payback: If you do something out of love, admiration and you TRULY do it from that place, you will get yours in return, without even asking.

I feel this is a shame: and a bad example for fans out there.. of how to suppport a fan: I hope Obama can be thankful for his fans, that don't want anything in return besides, a Great Man as their Presidential Candidate.

Detour:Jazz -- Got Soul? www.detourjazz.com

What About MySpace?

adamconner7 — Thu, 03 May 2007 10:57:17 -0400

I think what is interesting, and lost in all of the focus on Joe Anthony and Obama for America, is the role MySpace played in this whole kerfluffle. Not so much the taking of the url and giving it to Obama, which is a situation we can understand (even if we don't think it was handled correctly).

But MySpace has built an entire industry around fake myspace profiles, around fictional characters, around all sorts of things like that. Does this mean it's only a matter of time before we see something similar, only with a copyrighted property?

For instance, will we see MySpace seize an unofficial "Entourage" or "The Office" character page from a fan because the owner of the rights to the (fictional) character property wants to control it? Who controls that?

We're on a collision course of this sooner then you think.

Obama's MySpace Mess: Enter the Shovel Brigade

Micah L. Sifry — Wed, 02 May 2007 20:29:09 -0400

It's been quite a day out here on the internets, with the blogosphere buzzing over our story yesterday of how Obama volunteer Joe Anthony lost control of his MySpace Obama page to the pros at the Obama campaign. And now it looks like we're going to have another day to chew over the story, for the candidate himself and the campaign's internet director have waded into the fray.

A little while ago, just before Obama internet director put up a long post explaining his version of the events surrounding Anthony's MySpace adventure, Senator Obama personally called Anthony at home.