techPresident - Technology - Comments

The Premise of the Poll

Nancy Scola — Wed, 02 Jul 2008 14:55:35 -0400

The question posed by the poll is whether or not a president of the United States needs to personally know how to use the Internet in order to lead in 2008, and the second option clearly offers the take on the topic that you seem to be interested in. In response to the question "Does an American president today need to personally understand how to use email, search engines, and other basic online tools and platforms in order to be an effective leader?" it reads "No, not as long as a POTUS has a firm understanding of the Internet's impact." Far from resting this exercise on that assumption that a president does need first-hand experience with all things online, that's the very question being polled and debated.

Changing The Question

EyeblastTV — Wed, 02 Jul 2008 10:55:05 -0400

The techPresident poll, and this entire debate, is premised on the belief that the next president needs to know how to use the Internet, and to in fact use it regularly, in order to lead the country and the world. It doesn't ask whether a president needs to understand how the Internet is transforming the economy and the world. Those are two different questions, two different polls.

Ask the latter question and I'll answer differently than I did in this poorly phrased poll.

Is Farming Changing the World?

Micah L. Sifry — Wed, 02 Jul 2008 08:24:54 -0400

EyeblastTV (Danny Glover) makes a fair point: people who read techPresident aren't a representative sample of the population. And we're not suggesting that this simple internet poll is scientific. We put it up to help continue and perhaps crystallize the debate over how much it matters that the next President "get it."

But Danny is stretching things by comparing this discussion to one that farmers might have, or retailers, etc, about how important their arena might be for the next President to understand. Is agriculture undergoing a radical transformation that affects the rest of society? Are there dramatic changes happening in retail? Well, one could argue that biotech and global warming ARE indeed affecting agriculture, with deep societal impacts. And one could argue that the retail industry is facing jarring changes, driven by the internet in fact. But these sectors of the economy, and others like banking, law, manufacturing, etc, aren't in and of themselves producing society-changing effects on the scale of the internet. If anything, it's the other way around, the internet is also transforming these sectors of the economy.

As my colleague Andrew Rasiej likes to say, "technology isn't another piece of the pie, it's the pan." And what we're arguing here is that the changes being fostered by new technologies of communication and sharing ARE producing changes on the scale of the invention of the printing press.

Mike Turk makes a bunch of great points on this question over at The Next Right, commenting on Danny's post:

The Internet is a major driver of the US economy. Jobs being added, directly and indirectly, due to expansion of telecom services and broadband are a large percentage of net new jobs added in the last 7 years. That's a major piece of the US economy directly tied to the Internet.

Yet your argument is it's just a communications tool, so he doesn't have to get it.

If your understanding of manufacturing was so fundamentally flawed that you didn't know the difference between auto manufacturers and appliance manufacturers, that would be a problem. Yet we are willing to write off ignorance of a vast section of the economy and the players that operate in that space as a quirk of age or of "not using the product."

There is no way his political advisors would allow him to go out there and talk about Maytag and Ford in the same sentence if he didn't fudamentally understand the difference between the two. For that matter, they wouldn't let him confuse ABC, NBC and CBS (other communications vehicles). But forgiving his ignorance of major players in the Internet space is ok?

Skewed Results

EyeblastTV — Tue, 01 Jul 2008 16:22:01 -0400

No one here, at a site called techPresident and frequented by techies, should be surprised to see that the vote is 60 percent in favor of a president needing "to have firsthand experience with the Internet in order to lead." Now step out of your bubble and commission this poll in the heartland. I'm sure the result would be quite different.

Ask this question on a site called farmPresident, and I'm sure 60 percent would say the next president needs to have firsthand experience in agriculture to lead the country, too. You'd get similar results at factoryPresident, retailPresident, bankPresident, lawPresident, WallStreetPresident, etc.

Everyone thinks his or her corner of the world is more important than the next guy's. That doesn't make it so. A good president actually needs a basic understanding of just about everything in the economy and the world -- and a whole roster of advisers who can fill in the gaps.

I picked option No. 2 in this poll, though in reality my personal view falls somewhere between No. 2 and No. 3. For more of my thoughts on this debate, click on over to my post at The Next Right and subsequent elaboration in the comments.

Priorities people!

junothiall — Tue, 01 Jul 2008 13:25:01 -0400

Just to lay all the cards on the table, before anyone asks "Who the heck is this person and how do they quailfy themselves? - I am a 41-year-old professor of management information systems with a BSc and an MS in Computer Science and currently pursuing my PhD in MIS. I encourage my students to consider the full impact of technology, good and bad. I'm not saying I have all the answers but let's at least ask all the questions?

Aren't we assuming that just because Sen. Obama is younger he has a better grasp of technology and that he obtained that grasp all on his own? He's got great people around him to do that for him. Anybody can sound intelligent and well-informed after reading a report which has been prepared for them by an expert (Helllooo- speechwriters)

Comparing understanding the internet to being able to defeat terrorists? Come on. A bit simplistic don't you think?

But if you want to simplify - then let's really simplify:
To my understanding, the Internet is an INTERconnectnedness of NETworks, so really he must have first hand knowledge of a network and how to run cable. The basics of networks are interconnected computers so he must know how to configure a network too, eh? Then, while we're at it, he may as well have first hand experience programming, doing hardware repairs and sautering motherboards.

Okay....so the connectedness of a POTUS is that important? How about being connected to real life and real life issues? Priorities seem to be a bit skewed, but this is the JUST the techpresident site isn't it? I guess that's why there aren't any other opinions expressed here. Too bad. Otherwise there might be some real well-rounded discussions here on a daily basis. Usually even on a one subject dedicated site, other opinions, realities, and views are accepted, considered, and even valued.

But I digress....

That Sen. Obama (and Sen. Edwards according to Ms. Russo), have a FIRM understanding of the Internet's impact and that they both use that knowledge everyday to lead their states? Yeah, right.
Ever heard of security risks, hackers, viruses? (Ms. Russo, If Sen. Edwards has such a firm understanding of internet issues, why did he need to hire you?)

I doubt Sen. Obama is leading anything on a day-to-day basis for his state right now even with the much-vaunted internet connectivity. I'm sure with the non-stop personal campaigning and developing of his personal positions (of course he's got a FIRM understanding of both of these - Rev. Wright are you still there?) he has a firm grasp on what is happening in the campaign and where he'll be going strategically next week...again, yeah, right.

Our society today is one of immediate gratification and wanting to have perfect people holding high political positions that will do the right thing, right now. Most of us have trouble leading our own livesand relationships, let alone having a FIRM understanding of politics and how government works. The American divorce rate has been very high and mostly occurs in the early years of the marriage when reality sets in.

We are still in the courting phase folks, it may seem like we've committed and accepted the promise of engagement (The official date of acceptance is, of course, November 4th, 2008), with the ceremony to occur the following January.

Thereafter follows, hopefully, a first 100 days honeymoon.
Then the real nitty-gritty begins. Will a divorce of the election-induced euphoria happen or will we try to work it out? Only thing to remember - we're locked in for four years, no quickie out-of-country divorces available.

If the bad feelings begin, do we not realize that this all-powerful force (the Internet) we are buying into can tear down just as quickly as it can build up.

The Internet/email/Google are fine for the "haves" to build their ego and FIRM understanding of the world upon, the "have-nots" are still looking at you like you've gotten a lobotomy. We know that there is life outside the internet and that having an understanding of it may help, but it does nothing for leading a farm or a small town.

Also bear in mind that the population is growing older, not younger. Does Sen. Obama have a FIRM understanding and personal hands-on experience of how social security, Medicare, Medicaid, and Disability work? Not from what I read and understand. He has served on the Senate Committee on Health, Education, Labor, and Pensions for a year. Wow.

To be fair - those who have served in Congress will most likely not have personal experience with this either- their golden years will be very comfortable I'm sure. His contemporaries do have the age/wisdom/ experience advantage though. The median age in Congress right now is 60, but Even if a substantial number of incumbents are beaten, you're only going to see this median age drop ever so slightly.

According to the group-think expressed here, he needs a "working hands-on" knowledge of Social Security/Medicare/Medicaid/ Disability SSDI) in order to lead this country correct? This country and its people grow older everyday. This is may not be a global issue, but it is an issue here at home and, I imagine, around the world as well.

So I say again: Okay....so the connectedness of a POTUS is that important? How about being connected to real life and real life issues? Priorities seem to be a bit skewed, but this is the JUST the techpresident site isn't it? I guess that's why there aren't any other opinions expressed here. Too bad. Otherwise there might be some real well-rounded discussions here on a daily basis. Usually even on a one subject dedicated site, other opinions, realities, and views are accepted, considered, and even valued.

WAKE UP PEOPLE!!!
It's the HUMAN-CONNECTEDNESS, not the technology connectedness that will power any change, the technology helps but the people pdirect it. Technology is the tool, not the answer.

Does anyone still understand the value of face-to-face
"technology" - it's an oldie, but a goodie.

Oh come on!

Freedomfighter — Tue, 01 Jul 2008 10:16:47 -0400

You know this poll has a built in bias. ITS AN ONLINE POLL!

I am also certain four out of five persons responding, are under the age of 25 and are unaware of how an off the internet organization functions.
Even today, there are many people who use text messaging and cellphones instead of the internet.

It would be interesting how people here on TechPresident would function for a week if they were denied access tot he internet. How would they connect with the world?

In regards to McCain, saying he is "illiterate" about computers may be more politics than we realize. Many older voters, who are more likely to show up, consider themselves computer illiterate.

A candidate with

thegreathal — Tue, 01 Jul 2008 04:09:52 -0400

A candidate with "a firm understanding of the Internet's impact" understands by definition what is necessary. Of course, I don't see that practically occurring in this day and age, and would certainly begrudge my candidate a bit if they lacked their own knowledge.

But you know this isn't just a McCain thing. Ralph Nader still uses a typewriter.

McCain's "illiteracy"

junothiall — Wed, 25 Jun 2008 19:35:09 -0400

I agree Micah,
Let's see - a president that understands that he doesn't know enough about a subject to honestly admit it...or someone who cho claims that they are up-to-date?
Let's be honest here - do we really want our president online anyway? Say Russia/China/etc.... really pisses him/her off at 3am and there isn't anyone around to proofread or filter.....can you say" Let's start a war over an e-mail" or inappropriate post???

Someone at that level has more than enough to worry about other than "Should I really get more up-to-speed on these newer programs or should I read the reports in the red-box?" Hmmmmm, I know what my preference is. They get to that level by having someone or multiple people t do that stuff for them - does a CEO do his own email, uh- no.

I get Ms. Russo's and "her minions out there" enthusiasm, however, in her/their rush to brand all those who don't use the internet as much as she/they do, it is forgotten that knowing about something and having to do something are two different things.
Obviously they've never had a real office job or been in the military or medical field or you'd know that everyone has to know certain basic procedures (such as emergency procedures, where the bathroom is, where the local restaurants are) but that doesn't mean you have to use them on a daily basis, e.g. not everyday is an emergency(no matter what the boss says); if you mostly travel for work or telecommute, you don't care where the bathrooms are; if you pack your lunch, you won't need a restaurant.Medical and military personnel all need to know certain basic facts, but just because my neurosurgeon doesn't use email doesn't mean I won't trust him to remove that tumor on my brain. Do I want a General sending an orer to attack through an e-mail? Ummmm, no.

I realize that the "Tracy's" of the world may think that these are simplistic examples, but so is their statement that you won't vote for a president who doesn't know how to use the internet.

I guess Ms. Russo didn't vote for Gore then either - even though he "created it" LOL

NY Sun favors tech illiterate McCain

Micah L. Sifry — Tue, 17 Jun 2008 14:17:46 -0400

Apparently, the editors of the rightwing New York Sun think McCain's tech illiteracy is a virtue. Here's their editorial from today:

Senator McCain has been coming in for some mockery lately for having answered the "Mac or PC?" question from Politico.com with, "Neither, I am an illiterate." But before writing off the likely Republican nominee as a Luddite or an old fogey, allow us to contemplate the idea that Mr. McCain might be smarter than we all think.

Without a computer, he has more time to spend with his family and friends, time that he might have squandered surfing the Internet. Without a computer, he doesn't have to worry about fixing it when it breaks, or spend time transferring all his data to a new machine when the old one becomes obsolete. He doesn't have to wait for the one day a year that the local government will accept the old machine in the trash, while also worrying about wiping all the confidential data off the old machine so as not to fall victim to identity theft. He doesn't have to spend hours on hold with "technical support," only to finally reach someone who can barely speak English who will blame the problem on someone else.
He doesn't have to worry about electric storms taking out his broadband service, about his computer being taken over by viruses or spyware. He doesn't have to worry about falling victim to an Internet "phishing" scam or about blocking pop-up ads, about whether he has downloaded and enabled the latest version of flash or java or Windows Media Player or Firefox. He doesn't have to worry about the federal government finding inappropriate pictures that someone else has stored on his hard drive or about opponents in civil litigation trying to move for discovery on all of his e-mail.

He doesn't have to suffer through reading and deleting silly jokes and pictures forwarded from distant relatives. He doesn't have to spend time reading status updates of Facebook "friends" who are really just remote acquaintances. He doesn't have to worry about what the bloggers are saying about him. He saves a lot of money on all the online shopping he isn't doing. He doesn't have to worry about his stock portfolio by checking it incessantly online; he can just think about it when his monthly or quarterly statement arrives in the mail. He doesn't have to worry about accidentally sending the confidential memo to the whole staff. Truth is, given all the advantages of going computer-free, it's a wonder Mr. McCain doesn't have more company.

FCC and other state monsters.

voluntaryist — Tue, 11 Dec 2007 18:46:00 -0500

Celebrate the sovereign individual

Ron Paul would abolish the FCC, IRS, Federal Reserve, and much more. Without the net he wouldn't have a chance and vice versa. They need each other. The net represents the last vestige of freedom of speech. Paul is the only candidate who will protect it.

Mixing state and technology is a clumsy "dance"

johnfkosanke — Tue, 11 Dec 2007 07:16:23 -0500

Perhaps another example would be illustrative. The FCC was created after the invention of the radio. Bleeding heart statists wanted to protect the "scarcity" of the airwaves. While this idea has been long since disproven, The FCC continues to heavily dictate spectral property and broadcasting in the same way the USSR distributed physical property and the Politbureau centrally "planned" the economy, keeping the big boys up on top.

Start-up technologies are fighting tooth and nail for a tiny piece of the spectrum - begging the omnicient and omnipotent FCC for mercy.

Now the FCC has declared by fiat that all television broadcasts must be digital by a certain date. Just when landfills are beginning to embrace the technology of recovery and recycle, they are struggling in anticipation of the mountains of toxic waste from TV sets that will become obsolete overnight.

All with a stroke of a pen.

Failure to Connect

littlebier8 — Mon, 10 Dec 2007 19:37:26 -0500

I had hoped that techPresident would show some sense of democracy in their ratings, but no, once again, the damning liberal-conservative bias has crushed a great opportunity to explore the Internet's choice for president. When I read the title I thought, "Hey, this is a pretty cool idea. Who WOULD the Internet generation pick for president?" But that was far from what I got. This article was not an investigation of the Republican Internet-goers choice (and marginalizing the thousands of silly "Ron Paul iz great in 08" comments), but instead it was the vision of the anointed authors of techPresident.com, totally disconnected from what the people might actually want. This article despises the intelligence of the people they claim to represent. Rather than investigating and providing proofs for the people's desire for their six points, they have handed down their pre-formulated vision for a good "Tech President". They expect us to just swallow the party line of techPresident.com without a thought given to the practical, moral, or legal implications of that grand plan.
But that is just the metaphysical objections to this article. Now lets give it shoes and show what a sham it is. We can begin by taking for granted that Rep. Paul is the Internet's choice for president (since even they admitted that). Keeping that in mind, we must assume that the people have REASONS for voting for him and have done RESEARCH about his positions. Since most people on the Internet would pick him, logically they have looked at his positions (particularly about the Internet) and decided that it is in their best interest that he be president. Net Neutrality is a door for the government to control the Internet, as is the government providing high speed to the people. If they can give it to us, then they can punish us and take it away. Since it is a [socialist] gift, they can also regulate and monitor our doings. And what is wrong with letting the market provide it? It has provided tens of millions of people with Internet access at speeds never before imagined. Can you imagine a government bureaucracy doing that? Yeah, just like the government controlled phone company did. The comparison to interstate highways is a non sequitur. Finally, his commitment to transparency is very clear in his statements, actions, and websites.
This article is basically the unilateral decision of a small group of people, predominantly neo-socialists, with a poorly researched agenda. I am most disappointed by this, considering the otherwise excellent work of the techPresident crew. This just represents a failure to connect with the people's opinions. It looks down on the masses as unintelligent people that need to be spoon-fed opinions, since theirs are the wrong ones. This isn’t a Personal Democracy Forum, it’s an Oligarchy Caucus.

Samuel Shaw
Mt. Laurel, of the sovereign state of South Jersey

Imagine freedom

Tex MacRae — Mon, 10 Dec 2007 09:14:07 -0500

"… every time we object to a thing being done by government, the socialists conclude that we object to its being done at all. We disapprove of state education. Then the socialists say that we are opposed to any education. We object to a state religion. Then the socialists say that we want no religion at all. We object to a state-enforced equality. Then they say that we are against equality. And so on, and so on. It is as if the socialists were to accuse us of not wanting persons to eat because we do not want the state to raise grain."

Frederic Bastiat, The Law, 1850

Pro-State Anti-Market Tech President Criteria is Suspect

johnfkosanke — Mon, 10 Dec 2007 06:40:43 -0500

How can McCain - or any candidate for that matter - can get a better Internet grade than Paul (Dr. Internet)?

* Ron Paul is ranked as the member of Congress with the most
Internet-friendly voting record by C-NET.

* He is cosponsor of HR 743, which provides for a permanent moratorium on Internet taxes.

* He is the leading Republican opponent of laws banning Internet Gambling and leading supporter of HR 2046, legislation restoring the American people's right to gamble online.

*He also opposes giving government power to monitor our Internet use absent meeting the Constitutional requirements of probable cause.

Anyone who understands fundamental market laws, knows that abusive monopolies can not last without an alliance with the state. Before Internetters go activist, they'd better get an education. Otherwise they will cut their own throats.

Why Paul's Bad Grade

Micah L. Sifry — Thu, 06 Dec 2007 19:53:49 -0500

Couple of quick points, as I'm about to get on a plane. First, the internet didn't rise spontaneously. It was originally a govt-funded network, under DARPA and various govt-funded research universities. Its growth has occurred thru a dynamic public-private dance that has yes, horrors, included all sorts of regulation. Net neutrality and the separation of content from service providers are vital to protect the very freedom the Paulites so cherish. Left to their own devices, the telcos would turn the internet into something like pay per view cable.
As for the claim that the EFF strongly supports Dr. Paul--I'd like to see some documentation, because it's highly unlikely the foundation is risking its non-profit status by supporting a candidate for office.
Micah